Curse

kenichiukiya · Jun 04, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyf0x_f0x

Imagine if you will, that a new artist starts a commission thread, I can guarentee that within the day, at least 5-10 people will have replied to it requesting a commission.

Well I didn't get that many people for my commission thread (even up to now).

Anyways that's not my point.

I have been watching this part of the forum for more than half a year now and yet i just started my commission thread last week. I am a new wannabe-artist offering commissions and seeing all those great works by everyone here, I swear to improve my drawing skills by offering commissions. For now I'm adopting the waiting line system just because i want challenge. People come in and ask me for commission of their character, and they only provide screenies without a story. Then I would imagine and work out a scene where I think suits the character best. This will push my limits and I always find myself drawing things I've never done before (like Perynne's ranger and 'soon-to-come' Mistical miss' ranger). I think this is a good way for me to improve and I don't think anyone will have problem with it.

About the price, as I'm still new I do not know how much the people around here appreciate my work. So atm I'll just let them decide what to pay me and I'll work out a reasonable price in the near future after I finish my first batch of commissions. I do state in my thread that I needed precious time and energy to do all these commissions so I asked people to be patient and pay a price they think suits best, and I have no problem with it. I WILL KNOW WHEN I'M UNDERPAYED, and so may be after this first batch, if anymore commissions come in I will ask for a specific price.

Just some thoughts from a new commissioner.

Torikae · Jun 04, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I completely agree with a lot of what you're saying, especially with regards to artists as insanely talented as yourself

However, whilst I agree that it's unfair to make people wait a long time just because they view the forums less frequently, I don't think it's any more fair to make the people who jump in there first wait instead. So what if they can't afford to pay me much, or I don't much like the look of their character, or they want something a bit boring? I'm sure that doesn't mean they'll appreciate their picture any less than the next person.

I agree on the bidding analogy in a lot of respects, also, but I think it depends a lot on how the artist views their own art, and the process of drawing for others. For those who see it as a business; a means of earning gold, then it applies, most certainly. It's important to get the best result for the time spent. For me, though, I don't draw to earn gold, or challenge myself artistically - Those are nice bonuses. I find the best part of giving someone a picture isn't getting paid, but hearing that they like it and are grateful for the time and effort I spent on it. I grin like an idiot whenever someone leaves an "omgIloveit" response in my thread - that's what makes it worth the effort, to me, no matter how much they paid me, or how much grief the picture caused me in the making

In your example of:
"Afterall, if all someone is offering is a generic character, and someone else is offering the same generic character +2x the amount of gold, why should the artist choose the first person? Simply because they had a faster internet connection and posted first?"
Why should the artist choose the second person? Simply because they are richer? Vast over-simplification, I know, but I guess whichever one is chosen, it's unfair in some way on the other. Filling their requests in the order they're received seems fairest to me, as no matter how much persuasion people can give, I don't feel I really have the right to decide who 'deserves' something more than the next.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of asking commissioners to /persuade/ me to draw their character anyway. I'm just not good enough to ask that of people. I'm flattered that anyone is willing to pay me for my work at all!

As usual, I've rambled uselessly around my point ^^'
I think what I'm trying to say is, I completely agree with everything you're saying with regards to your own and many other people's commissions - I just don't think it necessarily applies to everyone in the same ways

Knightsaber Sith · Jun 04, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Say yes to commission queues!

So, if one guy is the first to see an new artist's thread but doesn't have some interesting idea for the pic, he might never get a pic done? His first submission was passed over and all subsequent submissions as well 'cause other people that just found the thread had a better idea of what they wanted.

I think first come, first served is the best. Set a limit on how long the queue is if you're worried about burning out, and don't accept any "reservations" 'til you open the queue again.

It seems more fair to me, so everyone can get a chance if they wait.

Personally, I think this guy's queue setup is ideal
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=1#post2712950

*Alexiel* · Jun 04, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Completely agree =]

greyf0x_f0x · Jun 04, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I too, think Babaroga's commission setup is on of the best around. He's clearly put a lot of thought into how best to please his customers, the art fans in general, and himself as an artist

StarrTheInsane · Jun 04, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

That one is pretty good, but I do also like your idea for how much in-depth information should be added by the buyer (you pitch). It's a good set of description ideas.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 04, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Hmm, I personally am annoyed by people who camp art threads and 'plant their flag'. It makes no sense to ask so hungrily when they haven't even been mentioned. If you're looking for a commission and they haven't been mentioned, try and get in contact with the artist and ask. I think it's rude how some people say 'you haven't mentioned commissions but I'm first anyway'.

I know when I start my thread in 'hopefully' the next few days (2 assignments due soon, the thread might have to wait until the weekend), anyone who plants their flag will be ignored, and possibly not get a commission later on, even if I decide to take them. I'm going to do things my way, and if you're going to be rude, screw your commission!

StarrTheInsane · Jun 04, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Well, that's like with mine, I originally only mentioned that I might do commissions. I actually fully intended to if I got a decent response. After a couple people showed interest in it, I went ahead and started. I didn't do the first person first, because it was more of a "give me a heads up if you do..." than a request. I went ahead and saved them a spot near the top pending further communications from them. Certainly if I didn't hear back, I would disregard and continue with the others.

I certainly am willing to do extra work once the picture is finished if someone tips and has special requests. Something like, "Hey, this is more than you are asking, could you change the background?" or anything else to tweak the picture so it's perfect for them. Of course in the wake of this thread, I've changed my policy a bit so that happens less. I'd like to make sure that I get enough information before I begin to create something that is accurate and specific to that character the first time, but that also means it's going to take me a bit longer to complete the initial piece (so charging a reasonable price is a bit easier).

Despite being scolded, I don't feel my original price was too far off-base. Seeing some of the work that grey and babaroga have done for the prices they ask, I can honestly say that my size and resolution (and time it takes me to finish those) could be increased alot in future work.

Rainbird · Jun 04, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Hmm, I personally am annoyed by people who camp art threads and 'plant their flag'. It makes no sense to ask so hungrily when they haven't even been mentioned. If you're looking for a commission and they haven't been mentioned, try and get in contact with the artist and ask. I think it's rude how some people say 'you haven't mentioned commissions but I'm first anyway'.

I know when I start my thread in 'hopefully' the next few days (2 assignments due soon, the thread might have to wait until the weekend), anyone who plants their flag will be ignored, and possibly not get a commission later on, even if I decide to take them. I'm going to do things my way, and if you're going to be rude, screw your commission!

I hear ya!

ravensong · Jun 04, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

There is awful alot of text in this post and didnt have patience to read it all,but i read grey_fox`s first post and i must say I agree with most of the things!

I mean, I dont have anything against flaging but I agree about that artist could choose which to draw to prevent boringness. For example my last list was almost all female characters wich was very dull. But then again it isnt very fair to customers.

*Darcy* · Jun 04, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

The artist can always ignore unsolicited flag posts and direct the commissions by stating his/her request. Tell posters that you are interested in taking two commissions for warrior singles or three commissions on 4-person groups. This would not only limit the commission line, but give the artist the ability to work on pictures that allow them to perfect their style and keep up their own interest.

An artist is not a manufacturer. Although most have work that puts bread on the table, it's not usually their favorite type of work. When things deteriorate to doing only cookie-cutter drawings, their art suffers. So, each artist needs to explore the options to ensure that the first excitement of people wanting your work does not change to being a burden of uninteresting jobs.

Moa Bird Cultist · Jun 04, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Gonna stick my neck out and say I agree. I've got a huge amount of respect for the artists who take their time to draw our characters. However, I don't have the time to camp the forums and jump an art thread as soon as it appears and as such, I usually miss the boat when and where the artist decides to offer commissions. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation either. Also, everything Grey says about it being not fair on the artists is true as well. Art isn't easy, it isn't manufactured, as Darcy said and it most definitely isn't something you can demand from a person or force out of them.

Also, I need to set the record straight on something that's been bothering me. Ravensong, I apologize for making your life massively difficult with regards to my second commission. I should have just let you do your thing and for that, I'm sorry. Thats all.

Verdura Mindcatcher · Jun 04, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I've gotta disagree with Grey here.

The people who take comisions know what they are getting into. I really don't think it's fair to be overlooked if you have a "boring" character or a character the artist doesn't want to draw.

I think the whole point to the thread is a result of certain people always claiming a comish even when the artist is unsure if they are even going to take comisions. (You know who you are)

If that is the case, then why do the rest of us have to face these kind of changes? I'll admit I jumped the gun once becuase I learned if we don't act fast we might miss out.

I'm just adding my thoughts here. I personally like the queue and have no problem if an artist takes awhile in doing thier art. Like Sith said at least with Queue's we know we are going to get a chance. Without Queue's you might never get a chance.

Unlucky Slayer · Jun 04, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

While seeing Grey's way of doing everything is good for the awesome art he puts out. I dont think every artist should do that, because not everyone thats looking to get art can bust out that much information about their characters even if they play them all the time. Sometimes the consumer just has a small idea that they hope the artist they choose to draw that idea for them comes out the way they are thinking, the great thing here is that every artist meets or exceeds these expectations.

As for doing stuff for free and the whole getting undercharged bit... If the artists want to do stuff that way let them. Not everyone needs nor wants the money in game. Not calling some of the artists greedy, but it does look that way sometimes.

But in the end I do think that, to prevent block, the artist should take their time and do what they are inspired to do at any given time even if it comes not in the order of the comissions. Most of us dont really mind waiting. (I've waited nearly six months for a piece.) I'm in no rush to get quality work.

I dont know if what I said makes sense, but I think it does to me. =P

lyra_song · Jun 04, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I think its all up to the artist.

Personally i turn down boring stuff...If it doesnt challenge me or give me an opportunity to do something fun/original, i wont do it, regardless of if you were first, or offering more money.

Xenrath · Jun 04, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Personally speaking I think it's a bit of a shame this part of the forums has basically become Commission Central as it is... I hardly post anymore but liked to look in this section to check out videos, comics and so forth (and posted plenty of my own in the past) yet those seemed to have been dwindling and the WTS Commission threads have been increasing quite a bit in number... no doubt there are talented pictures but I don't bother looking through those threads.

I don't see why there can't be a commissions section in the Ventari Sell section, after all these are trade/services. Oh well, just my personal opinion anyway.

Mistical miss · Jun 04, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I think it well belongs here in the nolani academy forums

its art, and this is the place for it, its not just the people who order commissions that want to see pictures, we (the community) love to see the commissioned characters aswell

And as for vids and comics, there haven't been many new comics around lately, just one which is still on the latest page..
The comics were from some time ago, and well, threads keep up with time, its better to have new stuff to look at every week, than to keep the same movies/comics on the page...

And cats' videos are awesome ^^ I highly recommend watching those !

As for the on topic:

I'm guilty for delaying art I don't like to do aswell

, Ren has been waiting for me to finish his work for ages, but well :S I just don't feel like it, perhaps I'll redo it sometime.

Babaroga · Jun 04, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I realy think this is useless thread.

Don't get me (too much) wrong, but if a certain artist can't deal with his "troubles" and "campers" by himself, then, a word my friend, bug off! Pressure is something you have to get used to, and eather work with it, or don't work at all.

greyf0x_f0x · Jun 04, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

I don't see why there can't be a commissions section in the Ventari Sell section, after all these are trade/services. Oh well, just my personal opinion anyway.

You know what... I think you might be on to somthing!

Think about it, why not have every artist just post their commission thread in the "services" section of ventari's. Then let them have another thread here that they use to display their art and link the two. That way, everyone still gets to look at the pretty pictures, and the art threads can be kept clean of "zomg! comison now plz kthxbye!"

A degree of seperation between art and business

Unlucky Slayer · Jun 04, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

If you're really looking for a split between the business and the show, why do it in sales... There's a bunch of people that wouldnt even bother going there for the commissions. I know I wouldnt.

If we can get it set up, I wouldnt mind having a child board for this section specifically for commissions. (The business end.) That way you wouldnt have to bend to the will of the sales rules (too strict for art imo) And would still have the seperation that is kinda needed. Pushing it to sales would just drive away more people than it would help bring in. =/